Curse

Thargor · Aug 10, 2007, 10:50 AM // 10:50

As far as the update goes I don't see anything that is too over the top except maybe the exhaustion on Rits. There are two classes that I do not play, the Paragon and Rit so I am not really concerned with it and will not comment on it. The other major gripe seems to be Aegis and its apparent requird use in PvE. I have vanquished all of Tyria. At least 30 of the areas were done solo with heros and hench and I can honestly say that Aegis was not on any skill bar in the group. There are many ways of doing things in this game, I suggest people actually try to learn more than one of them so when something gets changed they can keep on playing instead of wasting a bunch of time crying about it on the forums.

Cass · Aug 10, 2007, 11:04 AM // 11:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by manitoba1073

Well I wont lie its not an easy build to run and its definitely not a 1,2,3 build.

Play around with the Zashain elite guys for a little with it. Usually ull start with Nightmare weapon and dual shot, then imediatly hit with choking gas. then you can goto splinter/barrage when that gets done hit ignite arrow, nightmare weapon, then dual shot. And then its basicaly rinse and repeat. But thats the basics of it.

Now the reason to use nightmare and dual shot on first hit is you will get hit some if you dont get the first shot off so using a long bow is a plus gives you time to get in a little more with choking gas.

It's fine if you're a PvE player, but why act like your armchair PvP fantasies should be regarded as great lessons for all?

The build you posted is ineffective, and I am being very, very polite. No less than four preparations/weapons, half of which don't even work with the elite attack skill you're using. Spread attributes across 3 lines, all of which are needed to power the sole purpose of attacking. The attack sequence you posted is just unreal. Nightmare weapon then dual shot and then "hit with choking gas"? ...
Honestly, you have a lot to learn if you think that using a weapon spell on your dual shot is the way to go and then to use an interrupt preparation for ~12 seconds before even using barrage (again).

The skill changes are a step in the right direction for the most part. I really hope the fairly random commentary by people who would think such a build a pinnacle of PvP are disregarded by the devs.

Miral · Aug 10, 2007, 11:24 AM // 11:24

you realize you don't have to be using every single skill on your bar 100% of the time? if you rely on the whole bar for an effective build, then you're just, as our lovely andrew would put it, leaning on a crutch. and if you're relying on an elite skill to completely form your build, then its an even worse crutch; a crutch that a decent mesmer will rip out from under you so fast you'll be levitating for a second before gravity kicks in. the problem with pvp of course is that no one knows how to adapt, so instead of whine for nerfs, and make the PvEers adapt instead, when in reality the PvE were fine with the game just the way it was, and the PvPers are the big crybabies that want everything their way, and then a month later will want everything completely different again

jayce · Aug 10, 2007, 11:53 AM // 11:53

for the love of god, can we have just one update for the necro blood magic skills. this is just down right sad. its bad enough that curses has the most number of skills in that attribute, and gets the most love again with the most number of skills in the upcoming gwen. not ever necro wants to run a hex bar. the same can be said with death magic skills. give the necro a reason to run something other than minions when investing in the death attribute. half the skills in death magic require the use of a corpse. enough with curses already. i say again, enough with the curses already.....

Jayce Of Underworld

yesitsrob · Aug 10, 2007, 11:56 AM // 11:56

Look, his bar is not very good. I just wanted to confirm what it did, Barrage + Preperation alone is bad, Barrage + 2 Preperation is worse... 2 preps on a bar in _most_ cases is bad. 2 Weapon spells on a ranger bar is normally bad. It's flawed, it would not do what he claims it to do in a proper pvp situation. Humans != NPCs and Barrage + Splinter does not have close to the same effect as you might think it will.

Evilsod · Aug 10, 2007, 11:59 AM // 11:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patrick Smit

Gale was being used even though it had exhaustion. It was even used by non-ele proffessions. You should just not load up your bar with exhaustion causing spells, thats just plain ignorant. And you should use the skill wisely, and not spam it.

Gale is an unconditional knockdown... pretty much every none-attack based skill that causes knockdown causes Exhaustion or has an insane recharge/cast/cost. Lets look at the list of Air magic skills... Shock, Chain Lightning, Invoke Lightning (conditional) and Shock. Well Chain Lightning sucks, Invoke has an easy condition to avoid exhaustion, Mind Shock sucks as its elite and Shock is a melee damaging version of Gale... why the hell would you take more than 1? Theres no need to, if your a Warrior, just use Shock, your not exactly gonna take Invoke Lightning are you.

These rit skills on the other hand, Wielder's Strike and Ancestors Rage? Why the hell would you of not taken these 2? Both useful damage dealing skills (albeit overpowered), so what do they do, add exhaustion to them, why the hell would i waste 2 slots on these now? I can use it once every 30 seconds or i'll screw myself over and all i get from it is a little damage. Then the spirits... Wanderlust maybe, but Anguish, Dissonance and Disenchantment, just wtf. They were all a bit expensive... but they exist on the same frigging skillbar quite easily! Offensive spirits rits have just been stabbed in the back and had there ashes pissed on... i can now take 1 of the 4... what a shitty change.

Manitoba... PLEASE stop talking... your making the PvEers here who actually have common sense look bad.

Cebe · Aug 10, 2007, 01:08 PM // 13:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evilsod

Then the spirits... Wanderlust maybe, but Anguish, Dissonance and Disenchantment, just wtf. They were all a bit expensive... but they exist on the same frigging skillbar quite easily! Offensive spirits rits have just been stabbed in the back and had there ashes pissed on... i can now take 1 of the 4... what a shitty change.

I just tried using a Communing build. One exhaustion-causing ritual is "ok"...two is pretty nasty...and even just using 2 means you'd have to wait for 60 seconds for a full energy bar..

Exhaustion is too much for Ritualists. If a Rit has 40 energy, and an Ele has 80 energy, 10 exhaustion looks like nothing on an Ele...on a Rit, it's one quarter of the energy bar grayed out...and that stings. Perhaps it would be more appropriate to make exhaustion calculate itself based on your maximum energy. 2 casts of Ancestor's Rage is crippling...although at least Glyph of Energy could be used with that...then again...look where you have to go just to cap that.

I didn't think the exhaustion would prove too much of a problem until I tried using my current builds. They'll all need to be drastically changed while I hope for the exhaustion situation to be vastly toned down.

QoH · Aug 10, 2007, 01:43 PM // 13:43

Anet please fix Keen Arrow on next skill update(either the skill description or the skill), thx

Evilsod · Aug 10, 2007, 02:40 PM // 14:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Celestial Beaver

I just tried using a Communing build. One exhaustion-causing ritual is "ok"...two is pretty nasty...and even just using 2 means you'd have to wait for 60 seconds for a full energy bar..

Exhaustion is too much for Ritualists. If a Rit has 40 energy, and an Ele has 80 energy, 10 exhaustion looks like nothing on an Ele...on a Rit, it's one quarter of the energy bar grayed out...and that stings. Perhaps it would be more appropriate to make exhaustion calculate itself based on your maximum energy. 2 casts of Ancestor's Rage is crippling...although at least Glyph of Energy could be used with that...then again...look where you have to go just to cap that.

I didn't think the exhaustion would prove too much of a problem until I tried using my current builds. They'll all need to be drastically changed while I hope for the exhaustion situation to be vastly toned down.

Not to mention using an item spell reduces your energy pool even further! They really didn't think this through...

Quote:

Anet please fix Keen Arrow on next skill update(either the skill description or the skill), thx

I wouldn't count on it... i think the mods here accidently made the Bugs Forum invisible to all Anet personnel.

Retribution X · Aug 10, 2007, 02:59 PM // 14:59

WTB Item spell that causes no skills to cause exhuastion.

geepers! Glad I put my rit up a few days ago.

thor hammerbane · Aug 10, 2007, 02:59 PM // 14:59

Mixed Feelings I Must say, But overall, I think A-Net thought about it.

Mes: Echo and CoF..Must start using them more.
Necro: About time they got a nerf. Anti-Meelee was much too simple. But necromances, don't despair, there are still plenty of anti meelee options.
Ele: Glyphs and Rodgorts look tasty. About time those blindbots got nerfed! Finally I don't need to be afraid to run warrior

Monk: Remove Hex..Yes! As for the aegis nerf, was a bit excessive in my opinion. A good mesmer with mirror of disenchantment and an interrupt can shut down an aegis chain quite easily, no need to murder the skill to this extent.
Warrior: Best part of update. I can finally use For Great Justive and Crude Swing. Merci!
Rit: Made a rit yesterday, bad timing I suppose. Necessary though. Too many spirit spammers and rit spikes. Oh well, I'll Manage.

On the Whole, TY!

LifeInfusion · Aug 10, 2007, 03:15 PM // 15:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by manitoba1073

Well I wont lie its not an easy build to run and its definitely not a 1,2,3 build.

Play around with the Zashain elite guys for a little with it. Usually ull start with Nightmare weapon and dual shot, then imediatly hit with choking gas. then you can goto splinter/barrage when that gets done hit ignite arrow, nightmare weapon, then dual shot. And then its basicaly rinse and repeat. But thats the basics of it.

Now the reason to use nightmare and dual shot on first hit is you will get hit some if you dont get the first shot off so using a long bow is a plus gives you time to get in a little more with choking gas.

Nightmare weapon --> channeling magic
Choking gas --> Wilderness Survival (prep)
Splinter weapon --> channeling magic
Barrage --> removes all preps
Ignite arrows --> Wilderness Survival (prep)

Dual shot --> unlinked
Distracting shot --> expertise
Res

Anyone else see a major flaw in reasoning?
* Only NPCs stand clumped in splinter barrages...
* Barrage + preps = wtf
* Choking gas needs Practiced stance to actually last a decent amount of time, otherwise it is best to just use savage shot or the like (especially with no IAS)
* Ignite arrows is pitiful and nobody stands in it

The amount of micromanagement is insane first of all...and preps require 2 activation so you cannot "immediately" hit with choking gas.

Having to apply all those buffs means effectively you aren't attacking most of the time...might as well just run a beastmaster.

Frantic-Sheep · Aug 10, 2007, 03:17 PM // 15:17

Why do people calculate "to get back on full energy".. if you're fighting you shouldnt actually be on full energy (with few exceptions). Exhaust will only hit you when you spam the skills and/or load more than 2 on the bar tbh (2 can be hard enough). Its a choice you make during play: Should I hit him once more, or should I wait for the right moment and save me an exhaust...

the_jos · Aug 10, 2007, 03:20 PM // 15:20

Time for me to comment on the Aegis change (I quit reading at page 10, so perhaps someone already beat me to this).

I am the current guild leader of a HM dedicated guild.
Before HM, we used to play Deep several times a week (and fast).
When I don't play my mesmer, I play monk. That's several hours a day at the moment.
I can't even recall the time we as guild team used Aegis in HM.
Even in Deep HM, we don't use Aegis.

Stating that the Aegis change is bad for PvE and specially HM says a lot about the team build and the way people play.

Cebe · Aug 10, 2007, 03:27 PM // 15:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by the_jos

Stating that the Aegis change is bad for PvE and specially HM says a lot about the team build and the way people play.

I always have Aegis on my Hero monks, and I use it when I play as Monk. I can't appreciate what aegis chains are like in PvP as I've never played with or against a team like that, however, the range being reduced to "within earshot" shouldn't matter in PvE....because only the wammo is off the map aggroing everything and mending-healsig-frenzy will save him.

I personally like the Aegis change. For PvE the range isn't that important as people don't spread out too much...and the reduction in energy cost is always nice.

Sophitia Leafblade · Aug 10, 2007, 03:39 PM // 15:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by QoH

Anet please fix Keen Arrow on next skill update(either the skill description or the skill), thx

I concure! Please Fix it.

Lol @ Powershot. Point Blank and its clone get a nice buff for them which was much needed now how about actually making Powershot useful? or maybe some of the other bow attacks?

Say whats with the constant Buffing of adrenaline Gain with every skill update?? Might as well make Warrior skills totally free.

SpeedyKQ · Aug 10, 2007, 03:41 PM // 15:41

The Aegis change seems like a big nerf for PVE to me. Aren't you supposed to keep the frontline out of your aggro bubble when monking?

Sheriff · Aug 10, 2007, 04:07 PM // 16:07

As I mentioned somewhere else, I just find it strange that the communing tree has virtually no useful elite besides Wanderlust and what does ANET do? Nerf Wanderlust and keep all others the same (or worse)

Evilsod · Aug 10, 2007, 04:22 PM // 16:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by the_jos

Stating that the Aegis change is bad for PvE and specially HM says a lot about the team build and the way people play.

Hehe, my MM will appreciate the change. 5 less energy. Although i think people are underestimating the change a little... i mean some battles can get a little chaotic, a Paragon can get away with standing in the middle to cast Defensive Anthem on the Front and Back lines... but a monk will get killed. I mean you do have to be out of earshot to have any chance of actually keeping agro, and its not just leeroy noob wammos that head out of earshot range of the monks occasionally.

Wont matter to the rest of the casters, Rangers and Paragons... but the Assassins, Dervish's and Warriors will probably notice.

Miral · Aug 10, 2007, 04:48 PM // 16:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by LifeInfusion

Nightmare weapon --> channeling magic
Choking gas --> Wilderness Survival (prep)
Splinter weapon --> channeling magic
Barrage --> removes all preps
Ignite arrows --> Wilderness Survival (prep)

Dual shot --> unlinked
Distracting shot --> expertise
Res

Anyone else see a major flaw in reasoning?
* Only NPCs stand clumped in splinter barrages...
* Barrage + preps = wtf
* Choking gas needs Practiced stance to actually last a decent amount of time, otherwise it is best to just use savage shot or the like (especially with no IAS)
* Ignite arrows is pitiful and nobody stands in it

The amount of micromanagement is insane first of all...and preps require 2 activation so you cannot "immediately" hit with choking gas.

Having to apply all those buffs means effectively you aren't attacking most of the time...might as well just run a beastmaster.

haha i love it!

attitude towards ritspike: lol that build sucks it doesn't require any skill nerf it

attitude towards other builds: lol that build sucks its too hard to play

ahh, gotta love nerf herders

I'd really like to see the builds some of the nerf herders run.